i'm new, an introduction

General satin related chat. Talk about anything silk/satin related
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jasmineyoungtg
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by jasmineyoungtg »

GOWNRAPER wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:41 am Personally I don't care how a person sees their
gender. I'm still confused about why I enjoy playing
with satin gowns and other items in many fabrics.
One thing I'm not confused about is how old I am.
You start your intro at 20 and end it at 25. Makes me think this
is all made up.
GOWNRAPER
i'm 25. i used the numberpad on the keyboard and entered a 0 by mistake (i'm a cashier so when i think numbers my hand naturally goes to the number pad, sorry). i would have edited it to correct that but i was sleepy and i don't think the forum lets you edit messages after a certain period of time. you may also notice other typos like where it says "i pretended i was a boy" was supposed to be "i pretended i was with a boy". as a new person here i don't even know if i had access to editing the message once i posted it, it was weeks ago. sorry again for any confusion.
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jasmineyoungtg
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by jasmineyoungtg »

mattbh94 wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:14 pm
Freddielinton wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:42 pm So you’re a gay man, then.

Shame on your parents and the child psychologist for helping in your gender brainwashing. This is the problem in society. Seven year old kids should not even be thinking about this shit. So glad I’m never having kids.
Freddie, was there ANY need for that?

Any at all?

Look, you have a problem with transgenderism, fine. I'm not going to debate with you about it, you have the view. But directing that view at someone in the way you did is WAY out of line. It's offensive and discriminatory.

I've seen some of your posts on this and I've got to say something now.

What's shocking with this, is that this is a forum for people who likely would be marginalised anyway. That we can't be accepting of others because of how THEY are different to society's norms, when WE ourselves fit that description to a T, is quite frankly, ridiculous and counterproductive.

We're all different. Some of us do things others would consider weird because they can't accept that fact that we're all different. Some of us, don't fit how society (a human construct) has told us how to be.

Does any of that sound familiar?

That's the entire fetish community. There's a reason why a lot of us hide under our pseudonyms and usernames. Why we don't show our faces. It's not that we're not proud of what we are, it's just that out there in the world, there are people who would make us feel lesser than, worthless, different or humiliated because of who we are and what we're in to.

Imagine that feeling I'm sure we all feel or have felt at some point in our lives, and think about that being your whole existence. Your life. Who you are in public AND in private.

We don't exactly go out and wank out on the street with some satin.

Transgender people, whether you have an issue with it or not, go out every day, and feel like they're not themselves.

They're more like our community than we realise.

I'm Black. I've been racially abused. I can't go out my door without the nagging feeling in my head that someone I meet could be racist or could do me harm.

I empathise with Transgender people, because at least I can't change my skin, so I am who I am and everyone can see me. They can't though. They go out and cannot even be themselves without being vilified and treated almost like they're sub-human.
thank you so much!!!!! i wanted to say something very much along these lines but just didn't think it was worth trying to reason with someone who came at me with hate.i am so done with justifying my existence too. like that ship sailed when i was in middle school. btw i am also black (well half-black/half asian).
satin
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by satin »

jasmineyoungtg wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:14 am i'm 25. i used the numberpad on the keyboard and entered a 0 by mistake (i'm a cashier so when i think numbers my hand naturally goes to the number pad, sorry). i would have edited it to correct that but i was sleepy and i don't think the forum lets you edit messages after a certain period of time. you may also notice other typos like where it says "i pretended i was a boy" was supposed to be "i pretended i was with a boy". as a new person here i don't even know if i had access to editing the message once i posted it, it was weeks ago. sorry again for any confusion.
Welcome Jasmine, where are you from?
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jasmineyoungtg
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by jasmineyoungtg »

Freddielinton wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:04 am
I will say though; 7 years old still seems way too young to even be considering stuff like this. I do have a problem with that. I think parents and society put too much pressure on children. We need to let kids be kids.
that's what they did. they let me be a kid and play as a kid. that meant disney princess stuff and dolls. big deal? it just so happened i was a girl kid who was assigned male at birth. i never was "a man transitioning into a woman", not that there is anything wrong with that but your idea of transwomen as some stereotypical male becoming something else is like so outdated and wrong.

i was a girl who grew up into a young woman. rather than focus on the difference (me being assigned male at birth) why not focus on the things i had in common with other girls my age and with other women now?

the thing is i bet you wouldn't say a word if the situation were reversed because girls have played as tomboys like forever. so your problem seems to be with transgirls or feminine boys and that is a product of toxic masculinity, a patriarchy which expresses itself in misogyny and transphobia.

luckily things are changing. i never identified as a boy but if i had that would have been ok too: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/arch ... od/562232/
Last edited by jasmineyoungtg on Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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jasmineyoungtg
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by jasmineyoungtg »

satin wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:30 am
jasmineyoungtg wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:14 am i'm 25. i used the numberpad on the keyboard and entered a 0 by mistake (i'm a cashier so when i think numbers my hand naturally goes to the number pad, sorry). i would have edited it to correct that but i was sleepy and i don't think the forum lets you edit messages after a certain period of time. you may also notice other typos like where it says "i pretended i was a boy" was supposed to be "i pretended i was with a boy". as a new person here i don't even know if i had access to editing the message once i posted it, it was weeks ago. sorry again for any confusion.
Welcome Jasmine, where are you from?
Seattle.
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jasmineyoungtg
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by jasmineyoungtg »

mattbh94 wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:05 am
Freddielinton wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:04 am You make some good points, Matt. I guess I never really thought of it that way.
On the point of age....i'm not Trans so I can''t comment on what Gender Dysmorphia feels like, at whatever age.
my gender dysphoria was very strong and one of things i told my mom when she insisted i was a boy was that i wished i was never born. that plus the fact that i wouldn't just accepted what i was assigned at birth is what lead to me seeing a child psychologist. so yes, gender dysphoria can be very strong at that age for some of us. there's a reason why trans kids are a thing and that is because as they did more research on us they found that it was best to just let us express our gender identity than gender police us into deep depression.
Though from a sexuality point of view.....thinking I liked girls and only girls, whilst being very attracted to a lot of the guys in my favourite pop bands, like some of the guys in Blue or in S Club 7.....I think I knew as a kid, and didn't overly care, but I actually accepted it way later in life.
it was Simon from Blue wasn't it? :D
Parents, from what I've learnt, don't have anything to do with it, aside from actually pushing a gender onto the person, who then ultimately never feels comfortable.
exactly. my parents especially my mom didn't like the idea that i was a girl. my dad (who is Thai American) reluctantly accepted earlier than my mom. my mom only did after we all talked with the psychologist. and you know what? both are very glad they did. kids with less accepting parents often enter deep depression during adolescence and the rate of suicide among transgender teens is extremely high because of families and other people not accepting them. i escaped that.

thanks again for for talking with Freddie in a way i was not inclined to based on his first interaction with me. :)
mattbh94
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by mattbh94 »

It's absolutely no problem. I'd want someone to do the same for me with my Pansexuality or my being Black. Either way I don't like people being discriminated against.

Funnily enough actually it wasn't Simon. It was Jon Lee from S Club and Lee and Duncan from Blue.

Was never attracted to Simon. Dunno why. But Jon is still beautiful and perfect, Lee is sexy and Duncan can still make your heart melt with one look.

Thanks for the lesson about your childhood BTW. I didn't know how strong it could get at such a young age. Glad your parents came around nice an early.
Freddielinton
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by Freddielinton »

jasmineyoungtg wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:50 amno, i'm a woman. she/her thanks.
[post deleted]
mikeyb5753

Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by mikeyb5753 »

Freddielinton wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 am post deleted
I get what you're saying and kinda agree with some of it but there's times when opinions should kept to ourselves IMO.
Especially something like this which we don't know a lot about it. The human brain is a complicated thing and to boil it down to "mentally ill" is just wrong.
We're all different and unique in our own ways, just some are a bit more different than others.

#liveandletlive
mattbh94
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Re: i'm new, an introduction

Post by mattbh94 »

Freddielinton wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 am
jasmineyoungtg wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:50 amno, i'm a woman. she/her thanks.
post deleted
Freddie, why is it so difficult to call someone what they want to be called?

Also, that actually IS how science works. This is gonna be a long post but hopefully people can learn something from this. I'm no scientist but this is from general reading, research and how I've learnt to interpret things (thanks Asperger's and Dyspraxia for my sideways thinking).

Gender isn't biological. It's societal.

It's a social construct, created by humans.

SEX isn't even biological, technically.

The idea of things being male or female is a human construct designed to differentiate between two different genitalia and reproductive organs. We named them as such, because it made it easier.

Science however laughs at that, because there's people born with neither and people born with both.

Those genitalia are usually defined by chromosomes. Most of the time they match the genitalia and therefore the Sex we as humans define, but sometimes they don't.

If you wanted to know someone's Sex, the only actual accurate way of doing it is to find out which chromosome they have.

BUT, doctors don't have time to test you, so they check the genitalia, so most of the time it's accurate, sometimes it's not, but Sex as a defintion is a social construct in and of itself. The only thing nature does is assign you genitalia and which type of reproductive action you'll perform (initiating (not the right word but you get my meaning) or giving birth).

Transgenderism is about Gender. Gender being a social construct that has varied in social norm definition throughout history and throughout and across cultures.

Gender defines the social norms you are expected to live by based on how we perceive people of a certain Sex. The biggest reason for there being such a chasm, is that naturally, waaaay back when, the humans nature designated to give birth (whom we later called Females), weren't as strong as the ones who would initiate sex. I mean, it's kinda the same in all of nature, but there's different ways in which it affects species. Females then, as time went on, were more inclined to look after the young, whereas the Men were hunter gatherers.

Eventually, societal barriers were introduced and Gender became synonymous with Sex, because, well, humans like things not to be complicated and at the time it seemed plausible.

But there are and were societies in which human beings have been seen as basically androgynous, which we actually are, with regards to Gender.

Due to the various needs of humanity, the way humans like to differentiate things, Gender became a thing that existed, to seperate Men from Women. Then, as humans LOVE to give things roles and societal norms, Genders developed societal norms. As time goes on, those things become baked into human psyche.

The reason I know this is because I can use an example from Black culture:

Black people weren't, since our existence, racially abused and discriminated against.

Go back, 600, 700 years and we weren't facing active discrimination against us because of the colour of our skin. Not on the level of systemic and systematic racism, anyway, or at least, not that I know of.

We were living it up, across the world, but mainly in Africa and we were enjoying being seen, largely, as human beings. Though, obvs, humans love to see people not the same as them as under civilised so we did face that.... BUT to a large extent, we were seen as humans, just..... under-civilised humans.

Flash forward those 600/700 years, and without being told it, most Black people can tell you, we are very much aware of our race and colour, on a subconscious/unconscious level.

Not many Black people go out the house actively thinking "I could be attacked, right now, in my own neighbourhood, regardless of where or who I am or what I've done, just because I'm Black".

BUT, it's ingrained in how we think. It's at a point where it's natural and close enough to be born into us.

Everything we do and think about, our brain has filtered through "I'm Black" and therefore how may that affect us.

Walking down the street, means you're aware of every white person around you, you notice people who might fit the description of those that do us harm. Interviews, meetings, just meeting new people, everything you say is automatically filtered. You don't even realise you're doing it, but we do it. We see things differently, our brains work out threats differently, and all of this is basically ingrained, even though it is based off a societal problem not found in nature and isn't something that defines our species.

The same principle basically goes for Gender.

Gender roles and norms got so built in that we don't REALISE they're irrelevant.

They don't actually exist.

But we think they do, and we're so used to them being linked to Sex, that we can't separate the two.

Gender is literally just what social norms fit you best. That's it. In a way, if I had to define it.

You can change your Gender because Gender is fluid, because social norms and constructs are fluid. If they weren't, men would be wearing dresses (check out the Victorian era).

Humans are androgynous with regards to Gender. We're either/or.

The only way to accurate separate what we call Gender and Sex is to say that largely, one group has a penis, the other group has a vagina and can give birth. Or even more accurately, test people and check out which chromosome they've got.

Science can alter that though. You can cut off someone's penis, or use science to stop someone giving birth and probably you could probably remove someone's vagina to an extent. You do that for two people, one "Male" and one "Female", and according to Sex, they'd cease to be "Male" and "female". They'd also both be unable to reproduce. BUT they'd still be human beings. Now, if the Female wore mens clothes and fit the societal norms assigned to Men, and the Male did the same but for societal norms assigned to Women......would that make the "Female" a "Male" and the "Male" a "Female"?

How would you tell?

They don't have the reproductive organs. They can't reproduce by being impregnated, because one can't now have a child.

They're just human beings.

Science can change our reproductive organs. Technically, if you can (which I think we can), change a fetus' chromosomes before a certain point, you could quite literally change what nature originally prescribed to be have a penis, maybe, into a human with a vagina.

Yes.....Science and nature actually allow us to change Sex.

Science and nature also allow us to adapt the hormones in our body to replicate what certain chromosomes would give us from birth.

Nature isn't rigid, neither is science, neither are social norms.

So, it's wrong to think Transgenderism isn't science.

What you're actually doing, is understanding science and nature wrong, and conflating societal constructs with scientific ability, facts and the fact that nature is actually largely binary.

EVERYTHING we use to describe nature is a social construct. How do we know? Coz you couldn't ask another species about it and expect they'd use the same words or descriptions or even understand you.

We as humans are too used to thinking that....,because we put a name to something, that our definition is correct. Nature just...is. It's basic. If it's not something that can be observed across the natural kingdom, it doesn't exist in nature and therefore isn't scientific to nature. It's almost certainly a social construct.

Money, Fashion, Gender, Societal norms. We live by their definitions but they're definitions we created ourselves and can change ourselves and are in no way set in stone.

Once a Lion exists and walks, you can't change it into a Zebra right? You'd think so, but if we as a society decided to swap the names, as humanity as a whole, a Lion would now be a Zebra and a Zebra would be a Lion.

Are we wrong if we, decide to call a (new)-Zebra an (old)-Lion? No. What it is, is something that walks on all fours, one group have what we call a mane, is what we'd describe as golden, have what we'd call fur, they hunt skinnier beings on all fours, with what we'd call stripes, with what we call colours, the colours we call black and white. There are other characteristics that set them apart.

That definition of it being a Lion and a Zebra, is basically how we prescribe Gender, but using things we can't see.

Lions and Zebras don't exist. They're just names we've given to other members of other species to define how we see them and to differentiate.

You can't physically make what we would call a Lion, into a Zebra. Nature has already designated it those characteristics. But we can change what we call them.

In humanity, we have the ability to adapt our bodies to match the hormones of someone born with a different chromosome than us, and therefore affect the way the body works and even our physical appearance. No need for surgery. Hormones in and of themselves can do that.

That's natural, because if it wasn't, we wouldn't be able to do it. Literally, it just wouldn't happen, your body would reject it and die.

When non scientist people say something isn't natural, most of the time, they're using that phrase wrong. They're using it to say "this thing doesn't fit societal norms and therefore can't be possible".

Unless you literally CANNOT do it in nature, it's natural.

Anything you can do in nature is natural. Any part of nature that can be altered, is natural, because nature is just the make-up of things, and the animal kingdom (which we are a part of).

Morality is a different thing (is it moral to change a fetus' DNA to make so called "designer babies".....is it moral to abort a fetus?)....I'm not getting into those arguments about the morality of things, but they're moral questions. They're both perfectly natural. Depending on where you stand, they might not be moral.

Yet....humans conflate the two.

Same argument is used for Transgenderism.

It's natural. It just doesn't fit societal norms, and humans like societal norms because we think they have to stay rigid in order for society to function (they don't. Take away money and human beings won't cease to exist. We existed and thrived before the advent of money, we're just so used to it we can't imagine how to live without it. Not the same thing.) so, human beings decided it's not natural because it's easier to say than "damnit, we've got to change society to reflect the new thing we've just learnt".

It's science and scientific, because we use science to explore it.

It's real; we have had a large enough sample pool over a large enough span of time to confirm that it does indeed exist.

It's normal. The fact it has existed for so long, across so many cultures and peoples, means that it is what we'd define normal; as in, it is something that regularly happens and therefore is something that is natural to human beings, (using natural in the sense of it exists and has no adverse effects in its basic state, as opposed to unnatural like a disease or some aberration in nature that, whilst is natural in its existence, doesn't happen across humanity enough for it to be seen is something that humans are designed to exist with without adverse effects).

Its negative impacts purely come from societal norms causing a conflict between, essentially someone's inner personality and being and what the world around them says they should be like.

Transgenderism is normal, real and scientific fact.

It's not science that has gotten it wrong.

Transgenderism isn't unnatural. It's just unsocietal. There's a MASSIVE difference between the two.

Once you realise that, you'll realise that it's not Transgender people that should change, or science or nature that's wrong.

It's just society and the way we perceive things that needs evolution and a radical update.
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